this issue comes up, the debt ceiling is raised. is the raising of the debt ceiling, is it the end all, be all? of course not. are cuts going to come to some degree that we're going to be able to make a serious impact on the deficit? of course not. but it is silly season, and it's political season, and these are the topics that come up time and time again. >> these people have staked everything on cuts. >> i agree with you. >> i can tell you, on the hill, if there's a concern by the 1st of august or the 2nd of august, when we do really reach the debt limit, there are a number of republicans who are agonizing over whether or not to vote for the debt limit or whether or not to let this thing rattle off a little bit. >> which speaks to the party and the influence -- the power and influence of the tea party, which is really quite remarkable. >> this is where kaine, i think, made a very interesting move. he's got allen fighting his own party whereas he will not have a primary fight. >> moran and the museums. what did virginia congressman